| |
------=_Part_269_27880446.1301848035157
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Hey everyone,
Just wanted to let you all know that I'm now offering Lug Vises and
Replacement Sleeves. I've tryed to incorporate the great characteristics of
other vises, while making small, but needed improvements at an affordable
cost. The Replacement Sleeves in particular are a huge improvement from
other designes. They are also compatible with Anvil's vise and some other
versions. So, check them out and let me know what you think.
http://www.helmcycles.com/products.html
or
http://www.flickr.com/photos/helmcycles/5584026092/
Thanks,
Herbie
------=_Part_269_27880446.1301848035157
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<DIV>Hey everyone,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Just wanted to let you all know that I'm now offering Lug Vises and
Replacement Sleeves. I've tryed to incorporate the great
characteristics of other vises, while making small, but needed improvements
at an affordable cost. The Replacement Sleeves in particular are
a huge improvement from other designes. They are also
compatible with Anvil's vise and some other versions. So, check them
out and let me know what you think.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><A
href="http://www.helmcycles.com/products.html">http://www.helmcycles.com/products.html</A></DIV>t
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>or
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><A
href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/helmcycles/5584026092/">http://www.flickr.com/photos/helmcycles/5584026092/</A></DIV>t
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks,
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Herbie</DIV>
------=_Part_269_27880446.1301848035157--
|
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
----------MB_8CDC0365082BE24_10E8_1D9F9_webmail-m007.sysops.aol.com
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Herbie,
Do you have 36mm sleeves for oos headlugs?
Jonathan Greene
-----Original Message-----
From: Herbie Helm <helmcycles@gmail.com>
To: framebuilders <framebuilders@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Apr 3, 2011 12:27 pm
Subject: [Frame] Helm Cycles Lug Vise
Hey everyone,
=20
Just wanted to let you all know that I'm now offering Lug Vises and Replace=
ment Sleeves. I've tryed to incorporate the great characteristics of other=
vises, while making small, but needed improvements at an affordable cost. =
The Replacement Sleeves in particular are a huge improvement from other des=
ignes. They are also compatible with Anvil's vise and some other versions=
. So, check them out and let me know what you think.
=20
http://www.helmcycles.com/products.html
=20
or=20
=20
http://www.flickr.com/photos/helmcycles/5584026092/
=20
Thanks,=20
=20
Herbie
----------MB_8CDC0365082BE24_10E8_1D9F9_webmail-m007.sysops.aol.com
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
<font color=3D'black' size=3D'2' face=3D'arial'>
<div>Herbie,</div>
<div>Do you have 36mm sleeves for oos headlugs?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Jonathan Greene<br>
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"CLEAR: both"></div>
<br>
<br>
<div style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica">=
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Herbie Helm <helmcycles@gmail.com><br>
To: framebuilders <framebuilders@googlegroups.com><br>
Sent: Sun, Apr 3, 2011 12:27 pm<br>
Subject: [Frame] Helm Cycles Lug Vise<br>
<br>
<div id=3DAOLMsgPart_1_d6322376-c0c2-45bd-96e9-8248a96e15be>
<div>Hey everyone,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Just wanted to let you all know that I'm now offering Lug Vises and Re=
placement Sleeves. I've tryed to incorporate the great character=
istics of other vises, while making small, but needed improvements at =
an affordable cost. The Replacement Sleeves in particular are a h=
uge improvement from other designes. They are also compatible w=
ith Anvil's vise and some other versions. So, check them out an=
d let me know what you think.</div>
<div> </div>
<div><A href=3D"http://www.helmcycles.com/products.html" target=3D_blank>ht=
tp://www.helmcycles.com/products.html</A></div>
<div> </div>
<div>or </div>
<div> </div>
<div><A href=3D"http://www.flickr.com/photos/helmcycles/5584026092/" target=
=3D_blank>http://www.flickr.com/photos/helmcycles/5584026092/</A></div>t
<div> </div>
<div>Thanks, </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Herbie</div>
</div>
<!-- end of AOLMsgPart_1_d6322376-c0c2-45bd-96e9-8248a96e15be --></div>
</font>
----------MB_8CDC0365082BE24_10E8_1D9F9_webmail-m007.sysops.aol.com--
|
Hey Jonathan,
I'm in the process of getting those made right now. They should be
ready in a week or two.
Thanks,
Herbie
On Apr 3, 9:50=A0am, jon3...@aol.com wrote:
> Herbie,
> Do you have 36mm sleeves for oos headlugs?
>
> Jonathan Greene
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Herbie Helm <helmcyc...@gmail.com>
> To: framebuilders <framebuilders@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Sun, Apr 3, 2011 12:27 pm
> Subject: [Frame] Helm Cycles Lug Vise
>
> Hey everyone,
>
> Just wanted to let you all know that I'm now offering Lug Vises and Repla=
cement Sleeves. =A0I've tryed to incorporate the great characteristics of o=
ther vises, while making small, but needed improvements at an affordable co=
st. The Replacement Sleeves in particular are a huge improvement from other=
designes. =A0 They are also compatible with Anvil's vise and some other ve=
rsions. =A0 So, check them out and let me know what you think.
>
> http://www.helmcycles.com/products.html
>
> or
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/helmcycles/5584026092/
>
> Thanks,
>
> Herbie- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
|
--000e0cd2e7165a40c304a0074d00
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Man, where have I seen that before? Hold on, it's coming to me.....
On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 10:27 AM, Herbie Helm <helmcycles@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey everyone,
>
> Just wanted to let you all know that I'm now offering Lug Vises and
> Replacement Sleeves. I've tryed to incorporate the great characteristics of
> other vises, while making small, but needed improvements at an affordable
> cost. The Replacement Sleeves in particular are a huge improvement from
> other designes. They are also compatible with Anvil's vise and some other
> versions. So, check them out and let me know what you think.
>
> http://www.helmcycles.com/products.html
>
> or
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/helmcycles/5584026092/
>
> Thanks,
>
> Herbie
>
--
Cheers!
Don Ferris
Anvil Bikeworks, Inc.
Littleton, Colorado
Ph: 303.471.7533/303.919.9073
Fax: 413.556.6825
http://www.anvilbikes.com
--000e0cd2e7165a40c304a0074d00
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Man, where have I seen that before?=A0 Hold on, it's coming to me.....<=
br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 10:27 AM, Herbie H=
elm <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:helmcycles@gmail.com">helmcycle=
s@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; borde=
r-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div>Hey everyone=
,</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>Just wanted to let you all know that I'm now offering Lug Vises an=
d Replacement Sleeves.=A0=A0I've tryed to incorporate the great charact=
eristics of other vises,=A0while making small, but needed improvements at a=
n affordable cost. The Replacement Sleeves in particular=A0are a=A0huge imp=
rovement from other designes.=A0=A0 They are also compatible with Anvil'=
;s vise and some other versions.=A0=A0 So, check them out and let me know w=
hat you think.</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div><a href=3D"http://www.helmcycles.com/products.html" target=3D"_blank">=
http://www.helmcycles.com/products.html</a></div>t
<div>=A0</div>
<div>or </div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div><a href=3D"http://www.flickr.com/photos/helmcycles/5584026092/" target=
=3D"_blank">http://www.flickr.com/photos/helmcycles/5584026092/</a></div>t
<div>=A0</div>
<div>Thanks, </div>
<div>=A0</div><font color=3D"#888888">
<div>Herbie</div></font></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br=
>Cheers!<br>Don Ferris<br>Anvil Bikeworks, Inc.<br>Littleton, Colorado<br>P=
h: 303.471.7533/303.919.9073<br>Fax: 413.556.6825<br><a href=3D"http://www.=
anvilbikes.com">http://www.anvilbikes.com</a><br>t
<br>
--000e0cd2e7165a40c304a0074d00--
|
Hey Frame Builders,
I am going up to the great lakes area in my big diesel truck to pick
up my large steel surface plate and some other bits and pieces. I
plan to leave Austin April 7th. I will be traveling along a route
with the following points:
1) Austin, Texas
2) Howell, Michigan
3) Oberlin, Ohio
4) Austin, Texas
I have discussed this planned trip over here:
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/antique-machinery-history/possible-road-trip-austin-texas-johnson-city-ny-will-haul-222155
I
am looking for folks that need stuff transported generally along
this route. I can deviate from this route, if more gas money can be
contributed. I realize that most folks will probably want stuff from
the north brought to the south. I can do this but would also like to
take stuff from the south to the north. Small lathes, and mills, etc.
are welcome.
Fire up your craigslist searches, check out eBay, Call your buddies
that want stuff moved, etc. Also I am looking for a cold saw that can
cut 2 1/2" Diameter tubing. would love to trade transport + cash for
a saw.
My moving was recently documented on Prolly is not Probably:
http://prollyisnotprobably.com/2011/02/recent_roll_pedicabs_loaded_up.php
-Ken Cameron
|
Herbie,
some nice looking machining work there. I have to ask though, in all
sincerity, hasn't this all been done before?
I'm interested to hear what you feel are the shortcomings of the
current offerings? I've got nothing personally invested in all this,
just an interest in learning about what works, and why, in the world
of bicycle framebuilding tools.
Thanks.
Alistair.
On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 9:27 AM, Herbie Helm <helmcycles@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey everyone,
>
> Just wanted to let you all know that I'm now offering Lug Vises and
> Replacement Sleeves.=A0=A0I've tryed to incorporate the great characteris=
tics of
> other vises,=A0while making small, but needed improvements at an affordab=
le
> cost. The Replacement Sleeves in particular=A0are a=A0huge improvement fr=
om
> other designes.=A0=A0 They are also compatible with Anvil's vise and some=
other
> versions.=A0=A0 So, check them out and let me know what you think.
>
> http://www.helmcycles.com/products.html
>
> or
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/helmcycles/5584026092/
>
> Thanks,
>
> Herbie
|
Hi Herbie. Just took a look at your website and your frames look
awesome. Good work and a good eye. I did want to comment on the lug vise
though. It is so close to the Anvil offering that you may be treading on
thin ice. Most people will view it as a knock off which may be a
negative mark in the good will department. I could be totally wrong, but
it is worth considering.
very best,
Brent
Steelman Cycles
3600 Haven Ave #5
Redwood City, CA 94063
tel:650-364-3939
fax:650-364-4029
info@steelmancycles.com
www.steelmancycles.com
On 4/3/2011 9:27 AM, Herbie Helm wrote:
> Hey everyone,
> Just wanted to let you all know that I'm now offering Lug Vises and
> Replacement Sleeves. I've tryed to incorporate the great
> characteristics of other vises, while making small, but needed
> improvements at an affordable cost. The Replacement Sleeves in
> particular are a huge improvement from other designes. They are also
> compatible with Anvil's vise and some other versions. So, check them
> out and let me know what you think.
> http://www.helmcycles.com/products.html
> or
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/helmcycles/5584026092/
> Thanks,
> Herbie
|
Alistair,
I suppose my goal of offering a lug vise comes from a few places.
First, I have been somewhat frustrated with the selection of vises
that are currently available. All of them have their little quirks
that ultimately lead to something breaking, getting stuck, having to
use a brass hammer to loosen handles, too many parts, etc.
Second, I help Doug Fattic teach framebuilding classes and students
are always trying to find quality tools for a reasonable price. Out of
all the Lug vises we have in the shop (5-6 different kinds) They
either fall into the category of "too complicated/doesn't work" Or
"aren't being made anymore". Anvil was putting out a great vise for a
while there, but (as far as I know) doesn't offer one anymore.
Every tool has its pro's and con's so my goal was to take
characteristics from the best and put them into one vise. I've put
alot of time into improving on the design and yes, even though it
looks a lot like what Anvil use to make, It has more differences than
similarities. There are only so many ways that you can design a vise
and they all revolve the same mechanical principles. My views on
designing are "less is more". And I'm sure there a lot of people who
agree with me. Don Ferris I'm sure is one of them. He makes some
amazing, yet simple tools and is at the top of the tooling industry.
I certainly am not trying to step on his or any ones toes buy offering
a Lug vise. I'm just trying to fill a void by make a quality product
that framebuilders and beginners can afford.
Hope this answers your question.
Herbie
On Apr 3, 3:42=A0pm, Alistair Spence <alspenc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Herbie,
>
> some nice looking machining work there. I have to ask though, in all
> sincerity, hasn't this all been done before?
>
> I'm interested to hear what you feel are the shortcomings of the
> current offerings? I've got nothing personally invested in all this,
> just an interest in learning about what works, and why, in the world
> of bicycle framebuilding tools.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Alistair.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 9:27 AM, Herbie Helm <helmcyc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hey everyone,
>
> > Just wanted to let you all know that I'm now offering Lug Vises and
> > Replacement Sleeves.=A0=A0I've tryed to incorporate the great character=
istics of
> > other vises,=A0while making small, but needed improvements at an afford=
able
> > cost. The Replacement Sleeves in particular=A0are a=A0huge improvement =
from
> > other designes.=A0=A0 They are also compatible with Anvil's vise and so=
me other
> > versions.=A0=A0 So, check them out and let me know what you think.
>
> >http://www.helmcycles.com/products.html
>
> > or
>
> >http://www.flickr.com/photos/helmcycles/5584026092/
>
> > Thanks,
>
> > Herbie- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
|
Brent,
Thanks for the kind remarks.
I may have just answered part of your question in my reply to Alistair
(above).
I realize this could be seen as a grey area to some, but hopefully
people who use the vise will see the improvements and benefits this
vise has over other designs.
Thank you for the note of caution. Its always good to hear the
constructive thoughts of others
thanks,
Herbie
On Apr 3, 4:30=A0pm, Brent Steelman <i...@steelmancycles.com> wrote:
> Hi Herbie. Just took a look at your website and your frames look
> awesome. Good work and a good eye. I did want to comment on the lug vise
> though. It is so close to the Anvil offering that you may be treading on
> thin ice. Most people will view it as a knock off which may be a
> negative mark in the good will department. I could be totally wrong, but
> it is worth considering.
>
> very best,
> Brent
>
> Steelman Cycles
> 3600 Haven Ave #5
> Redwood City, CA 94063
> tel:650-364-3939begin_of_the_skype_highlighting=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=
=A0=A0=A0=A0650-364-3939=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0end_of_the_skype_highlighting
> fax:650-364-4029
> i...@steelmancycles.comwww.steelmancycles.com
>
> On 4/3/2011 9:27 AM, Herbie Helm wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hey everyone,
> > Just wanted to let you all know that I'm now offering Lug Vises and
> > Replacement Sleeves. =A0I've tryed to incorporate the great
> > characteristics of other vises, while making small, but needed
> > improvements at an affordable cost. The Replacement Sleeves in
> > particular are a huge improvement from other designes. =A0 They are als=
o
> > compatible with Anvil's vise and some other versions. =A0 So, check the=
m
> > out and let me know what you think.
> >http://www.helmcycles.com/products.html
> > or
> >http://www.flickr.com/photos/helmcycles/5584026092/
> > Thanks,
> > Herbie- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
|
Herbie,
thanks for your reply. I agree with a lot of it.
I will say that I think it might have been prudent to cite your
sources and influences. While it is true to say that there are only
certain ways to build a lug vise, due to the mechanical principals
involved, there can be no doubt that the fact that you've seen and
used others products will have influenced you tremendously when you
came to design your own. The overall size and heft of the the thing,
the relative size of certain parts to other parts, the materials used
for the various components etc.
Whether you realize it or not (and I'm sure you do), the fact that
you've seen and used other vises has given you some huge clues as to
how to go about building your own. With this kind of thing, I feel
that the right thing to do is to acknowledge the foundation provided
by others work that you have drawn on to make the next iteration.
Like I said before, it looks well made. I wish you well with it and
I'm sure it works great. It just looks a bit too close to pre-existing
designs to not give a tip of the cap to the guys that are already
selling those.
This is all imho of course.
Cheers.
Alistair Spence,
Seattle.
P.S. Did Anvil really discontinue their lug vise?
On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 6:34 PM, Herbie Helm <helmcycles@gmail.com> wrote:
> Alistair,
>
> I suppose my goal of offering a lug vise comes from a few places.
> First, I have been somewhat frustrated with the selection of vises
> that are currently available. All of them have their little quirks
> that ultimately lead to something breaking, getting stuck, having to
> use a brass hammer to loosen handles, too many parts, etc.
> Second, I help Doug Fattic teach framebuilding classes and students
> are always trying to find quality tools for a reasonable price. Out of
> all the Lug vises we have in the shop (5-6 different kinds) They
> either fall into the category of "too complicated/doesn't work" Or
> "aren't being made anymore". =A0Anvil was putting out a great vise for a
> while there, but (as far as I know) doesn't offer one anymore.
> Every tool has its pro's and con's so my goal was to take
> characteristics from the best and put them into one vise. I've put
> alot of time into improving on the design and yes, even though it
> looks a lot like what Anvil use to make, It has more differences than
> similarities. =A0There are only so many ways that you can design a vise
> and they all revolve the same mechanical principles. =A0My views on
> designing are "less is more". And I'm sure there a lot of people who
> agree with me. Don Ferris I'm sure is one of them. =A0He makes some
> amazing, yet simple tools and is at the top of the tooling industry.
> I certainly am not trying to step on his or any ones toes buy offering
> a Lug vise. I'm just trying to fill a void by make a quality product
> that framebuilders and beginners can afford.
>
> Hope this answers your question.
>
> Herbie
>
>
> On Apr 3, 3:42=A0pm, Alistair Spence <alspenc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Herbie,
>>
>> some nice looking machining work there. I have to ask though, in all
>> sincerity, hasn't this all been done before?
>>
>> I'm interested to hear what you feel are the shortcomings of the
>> current offerings? I've got nothing personally invested in all this,
>> just an interest in learning about what works, and why, in the world
>> of bicycle framebuilding tools.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Alistair.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 9:27 AM, Herbie Helm <helmcyc...@gmail.com> wrote=
:
>> > Hey everyone,
>>
>> > Just wanted to let you all know that I'm now offering Lug Vises and
>> > Replacement Sleeves.=A0=A0I've tryed to incorporate the great characte=
ristics of
>> > other vises,=A0while making small, but needed improvements at an affor=
dable
>> > cost. The Replacement Sleeves in particular=A0are a=A0huge improvement=
from
>> > other designes.=A0=A0 They are also compatible with Anvil's vise and s=
ome other
>> > versions.=A0=A0 So, check them out and let me know what you think.
>>
>> >http://www.helmcycles.com/products.html
>>
>> > or
>>
>> >http://www.flickr.com/photos/helmcycles/5584026092/
>>
>> > Thanks,
>>
>> > Herbie- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
|
On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 9:33 PM, Alistair Spence <alspence67@gmail.com> wrote:
> P.S. Did Anvil really discontinue their lug vise?
It's still listed on their site, so I'm guessing no.
|
--001517576c28e9bfd404a00fe6e9
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
It sounds good, but as tactfully as I can say it: I'm not buying it.
> They either fall into the category of "too complicated/doesn't work"
> Or "aren't being made anymore".
> All of them have their little quirks that ultimately lead to something
> breaking, getting stuck, having to use a brass hammer to loosen
> handles, too many parts, etc.
I took Doug's class a few years ago. Since that time, lug vise availability
has not changed. Andy (Strawberry/LAN71) did updated his with the addition
of a heat treated screw and new lever. He formerly used a hex bolt. Don
(Anvil) got rid of the flats on his. There were no other lug vises in
Doug's shop when I took the class that I am aware of or was shown. I find
it completely excusable and understandable to have preferences, individual
quirks and esoteric reasonings regarding hand tools. We have different
personalities that enjoy the tactile experience of working with our hands in
sometimes individual, particular ways. If you intend to introduce a
product; however, I implore you to do a more thorough job in explaining the
merits and differences of your offering. Other than a slot pattern change
that I *could* make a theoretical argument for---but not really a practical
one---your design looks to be an exact copy. I can see no different
"quirks" or fewer parts. If it is over-tightened, it will still "get
stuck". Have you had your sleeves split from use? I can see no reason for
that to happen unless a student is haphazardly tightening a vise with
nothing seated on its mandrel.
Maybe, though, I am going about this all wrong...
Perhaps this is what happens when a web page is reduced to a text line
concerning maintenance. One enterprising young man half a continent away
believes a product is no longer available and makes his own to sell. :) I
don't know. Where did you get the impression that the Anvil lug vise was no
longer available??
-Arthur
--001517576c28e9bfd404a00fe6e9
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
It sounds good, but as tactfully as I can say it: =A0I'm not buying it.=
<br><br>> They either fall into the category of "too complicated/do=
esn't work"<br>> Or "aren't being made anymore".<=
br>
> All of them have their little quirks that ultimately lead to something=
<br>> breaking, getting stuck, having to use a brass hammer to loosen<br=
>> handles, too many parts, etc.<br><br>I took Doug's class a few ye=
ars ago. =A0Since that time, lug vise availability has not changed. =A0Andy=
(Strawberry/LAN71) did updated his with the addition of a heat treated scr=
ew and new lever. =A0He formerly used a hex bolt. =A0Don (Anvil) got rid of=
the flats on his. =A0There were no other lug vises in Doug's shop when=
I took the class that I am aware of or was shown. =A0I find it completely =
excusable and understandable to have preferences, individual quirks and eso=
teric reasonings regarding hand tools. =A0We have different personalities t=
hat enjoy the tactile experience of working with our hands in sometimes ind=
ividual, particular ways. =A0If you intend to introduce a product; however,=
I implore you to do a more thorough job in explaining the merits and diffe=
rences of your offering. =A0Other than a slot pattern change that I <i>coul=
d</i> make a theoretical argument for---but not really a practical one---yo=
ur design looks to be an exact copy. =A0I can see no different "quirks=
" or fewer parts. =A0If it is over-tightened, it will still "get =
stuck". =A0Have you had your sleeves split from use? =A0I can see no r=
eason for that to happen unless a student is haphazardly tightening a vise =
with nothing seated on its mandrel.<br>
<br>Maybe, though, I am going about this all wrong... <br>Perhaps this is w=
hat happens when a web page is reduced to a text line concerning maintenanc=
e. =A0One enterprising young man half a continent away believes a product i=
s no longer available and makes his own to sell. =A0:) =A0 I don't know=
. =A0Where did you get the impression that the Anvil lug vise was no longer=
available??<br>
<br>-Arthur
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Tempest in a Teapot
To the list: I tok a look at Herbie's lug vise. Looks good. I'd buy it if
I as doing a lot of lugged frames. Is it like one somebody else did? Well,
is your frame like one someone else did? You know, two triangles, two
wheels, a fork?
In general if you hav thought up something truly novel and unprecedented,
you need to patent it. If you don't patent, it's all on you.
If Herbie is ripping Don off, well let's hear it from Don. Don?
jn
"Thursday"
e
On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 eat 9:07 PM, Arthur Marks <arthur.marks@gmail.com>wrote:
> It sounds good, but as tactfully as I can say it: I'm not buying it.
>
> > They either fall into the category of "too complicated/doesn't work"
> > Or "aren't being made anymore".
> > All of them have their little quirks that ultimately lead to something
> > breaking, getting stuck, having to use a brass hammer to loosen
> > handles, too many parts, etc.
>
> I took Doug's class a few years ago. Since that time, lug vise
> availability has not changed. Andy (Strawberry/LAN71) did updated his with
> the addition of a heat treated screw and new lever. He formerly used a hex
> bolt. Don (Anvil) got rid of the flats on his. There were no other lug
> vises in Doug's shop when I took the class that I am aware of or was shown.
> I find it completely excusable and understandable to have preferences,
> individual quirks and esoteric reasonings regarding hand tools. We have
> different personalities that enjoy the tactile experience of working with
> our hands in sometimes individual, particular ways. If you intend to
> introduce a product; however, I implore you to do a more thorough job in
> explaining the merits and differences of your offering. Other than a slot
> pattern change that I *could* make a theoretical argument for---but not
> really a practical one---your design looks to be an exact copy. I can see
> no different "quirks" or fewer parts. If it is over-tightened, it will
> still "get stuck". Have you had your sleeves split from use? I can see no
> reason for that to happen unless a student is haphazardly tightening a vise
> with nothing seated on its mandrel.
>
> Maybe, though, I am going about this all wrong...
> Perhaps this is what happens when a web page is reduced to a text line
> concerning maintenance. One enterprising young man half a continent away
> believes a product is no longer available and makes his own to sell. :) I
> don't know. Where did you get the impression that the Anvil lug vise was no
> longer available??
>
> -Arthur
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Tempest in a Teapot<br><br>To the list:=A0 I tok a look at Herbie's lug=
vise. Looks good.=A0 I'd buy it if I as doing a lot of lugged frames.=
=A0 Is it like one somebody else did?=A0 Well, is your frame like one someo=
ne else did?=A0 You know, two triangles, two wheels, a fork?=A0 <br>
<br>In general if you hav thought up something truly novel and unprecedente=
d, you need to patent it.=A0 If you don't patent, it's all on you.<=
br><br>If Herbie is ripping Don off, well let's hear it from Don.=A0 Do=
n?<br>
<br>jn<br><br>"Thursday"<br>e<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Su=
n, Apr 3, 2011 eat 9:07 PM, Arthur Marks <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"m=
ailto:arthur.marks@gmail.com">arthur.marks@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<=
br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; borde=
r-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">It sounds good, b=
ut as tactfully as I can say it: =A0I'm not buying it.<br><br>> They=
either fall into the category of "too complicated/doesn't work&qu=
ot;<br>
> Or "aren't being made anymore".<br>
> All of them have their little quirks that ultimately lead to something=
<br>> breaking, getting stuck, having to use a brass hammer to loosen<br=
>> handles, too many parts, etc.<br><br>I took Doug's class a few ye=
ars ago. =A0Since that time, lug vise availability has not changed. =A0Andy=
(Strawberry/LAN71) did updated his with the addition of a heat treated scr=
ew and new lever. =A0He formerly used a hex bolt. =A0Don (Anvil) got rid of=
the flats on his. =A0There were no other lug vises in Doug's shop when=
I took the class that I am aware of or was shown. =A0I find it completely =
excusable and understandable to have preferences, individual quirks and eso=
teric reasonings regarding hand tools. =A0We have different personalities t=
hat enjoy the tactile experience of working with our hands in sometimes ind=
ividual, particular ways. =A0If you intend to introduce a product; however,=
I implore you to do a more thorough job in explaining the merits and diffe=
rences of your offering. =A0Other than a slot pattern change that I <i>coul=
d</i> make a theoretical argument for---but not really a practical one---yo=
ur design looks to be an exact copy. =A0I can see no different "quirks=
" or fewer parts. =A0If it is over-tightened, it will still "get =
stuck". =A0Have you had your sleeves split from use? =A0I can see no r=
eason for that to happen unless a student is haphazardly tightening a vise =
with nothing seated on its mandrel.<br>
<br>Maybe, though, I am going about this all wrong... <br>Perhaps this is w=
hat happens when a web page is reduced to a text line concerning maintenanc=
e. =A0One enterprising young man half a continent away believes a product i=
s no longer available and makes his own to sell. =A0:) =A0 I don't know=
. =A0Where did you get the impression that the Anvil lug vise was no longer=
available??<br>
<font color=3D"#888888">
<br>-Arthur
</font></blockquote></div><br>
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On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 11:34 PM, jon norstog <muttonmaster7@gmail.com> wrot=
e:
> If Herbie is ripping Don off, well let's hear it from Don.=A0 Don?
We did:
On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 12:52 PM, Don Ferris <anvilbw@gmail.com> wrote:
> Man, where have I seen that before?=A0 Hold on, it's coming to me.....
I wasn't trying to degrade Herbie's machine work. It would go a long
way, though, if he were to explain the difference than simply call it
a "grey area":
On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 9:07 PM, Herbie Helm <helmcycles@gmail.com> wrote:
> I realize this could be seen as a grey area to some, but hopefully
> people who use the vise will see the improvements and benefits this
> vise has over other designs.
I apologize if my tone led some to believe I was calling Herbie a liar
or thief. That was not my intention. I was left with a poor taste by
such a cursory explanation. All of which is purely my opinion, of
course. -Arthur.
|
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It didn't take long between the original posting and me getting emails
asking if I'd given away our Anvil design. In my opinion, "Herbie's" is too
similar to ours to allow me to let it go unmentioned and because of the
history of our lug vise it struck a much more personal nerve.
My Dad & I designed our lug vise from scratch near 10-years ago and he
always made them for us when he was alive. When he died, I took a hiatus on
making them as my heart wasn't into making them myself. Our original
sleeves were just like "Herbies", the problem with them is they take a lot
of force to expand in sizes larger than 1.25" without making them really
expensive. We then began making the sleeves with opposite slits like a
lathe mandrel and while that works in the larger sizes it also was too
expensive. To keep the vise affordable and still cover the full range of
sizes, we went to the simple single slit design. BTW, anybody who ever had
a sleeve split only had to let us know or ask for a replacement; we've never
charged for replacing a sleeve and to my knowledge the only ones that split
were from a batch of 1.25" we had. The idea behind dropping the flats on
the vise body is from builder feedback, Peter Weigle being the most vocal
about it. Having flats forces you to loosen and move the lug on the vise
body. Leaving the body round means you just rotate the lug vise in your
bench vise which is both faster and reduces wear & tear. The lack of the
flats is the same reason why we shifted from making the bodies out of nickel
plated steel to using stainless steel.
You'll still find the lug vise on our 2011 price
list<http://www.anvilbikes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/2011-Anvil-Price-list.pdf>and
still
on the front
page of our website. <http://www.anvilbikes.com/soon.html>t Still made out
of stainless steel. Still with 7 sizes of mandrels (1", 1.125", 1.25"
1.330", 1.375", 1.420" and 1.450"). Still $325.
A vise body out of the latest batch taken this morning:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/anvilbikes/5588798139/
On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 10:34 PM, jon norstog <muttonmaster7@gmail.com>wrote:
> Tempest in a Teapot
>
> To the list: I tok a look at Herbie's lug vise. Looks good. I'd buy it if
> I as doing a lot of lugged frames. Is it like one somebody else did? Well,
> is your frame like one someone else did? You know, two triangles, two
> wheels, a fork?
>
> In general if you hav thought up something truly novel and unprecedented,
> you need to patent it. If you don't patent, it's all on you.
>
> If Herbie is ripping Don off, well let's hear it from Don. Don?
>
> jn
>
> "Thursday"
> e
>
> On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 eat 9:07 PM, Arthur Marks <arthur.marks@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> It sounds good, but as tactfully as I can say it: I'm not buying it.
>>
>> > They either fall into the category of "too complicated/doesn't work"
>> > Or "aren't being made anymore".
>> > All of them have their little quirks that ultimately lead to something
>> > breaking, getting stuck, having to use a brass hammer to loosen
>> > handles, too many parts, etc.
>>
>> I took Doug's class a few years ago. Since that time, lug vise
>> availability has not changed. Andy (Strawberry/LAN71) did updated his with
>> the addition of a heat treated screw and new lever. He formerly used a hex
>> bolt. Don (Anvil) got rid of the flats on his. There were no other lug
>> vises in Doug's shop when I took the class that I am aware of or was shown.
>> I find it completely excusable and understandable to have preferences,
>> individual quirks and esoteric reasonings regarding hand tools. We have
>> different personalities that enjoy the tactile experience of working with
>> our hands in sometimes individual, particular ways. If you intend to
>> introduce a product; however, I implore you to do a more thorough job in
>> explaining the merits and differences of your offering. Other than a slot
>> pattern change that I *could* make a theoretical argument for---but not
>> really a practical one---your design looks to be an exact copy. I can see
>> no different "quirks" or fewer parts. If it is over-tightened, it will
>> still "get stuck". Have you had your sleeves split from use? I can see no
>> reason for that to happen unless a student is haphazardly tightening a vise
>> with nothing seated on its mandrel.
>>
>> Maybe, though, I am going about this all wrong...
>> Perhaps this is what happens when a web page is reduced to a text line
>> concerning maintenance. One enterprising young man half a continent away
>> believes a product is no longer available and makes his own to sell. :) I
>> don't know. Where did you get the impression that the Anvil lug vise was no
>> longer available??
>>
>> -Arthur
>
>
>
--
Cheers!
Don Ferris
Anvil Bikeworks, Inc.
Littleton, Colorado
Ph: 303.471.7533/303.919.9073
Fax: 413.556.6825
http://www.anvilbikes.com
--001636e0a5e968374a04a01ac0cd
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It=20
didn't take long between the original posting and me getting emails ask=
ing=20
if I'd given away our Anvil design.=A0 In my opinion, "Herbie'=
s" is too similar to ours to allow me to let it go unmentioned and bec=
ause of the history of our lug vise it struck a much more personal nerve.<b=
r>
<br>My Dad & I designed our lug vise from=20
scratch near 10-years ago and he always made them for us when he was alive.=
=A0 When he died, I took a hiatus on making them as my heart wasn't=20
into making them myself.=A0 Our original sleeves were just like "Herbi=
es", the=20
problem with them is they take a lot of force to expand in sizes larger tha=
n 1.25" without making them really expensive.=A0 We then began making =
the sleeves with opposite slits like a lathe mandrel and while that works i=
n the larger sizes it also was too expensive.=A0 To keep the vise affordabl=
e and still cover the full range of sizes, we went to the simple single sli=
t design.=A0 BTW, anybody who ever had a sleeve split only had to let us kn=
ow or ask for a replacement; we've never charged for replacing a sleeve=
and to my knowledge the only ones that split were from a batch of 1.25&quo=
t; we had.=A0 The idea behind dropping the
flats on the vise body is from builder feedback, Peter Weigle being the mo=
st vocal about it.=A0 Having flats forces you to
loosen and move the lug on the vise body.=A0 Leaving the body round means=
=20
you just rotate the lug vise in your bench vise which is both faster and
reduces wear & tear.=A0 The lack of the flats is the same reason why w=
e shifted from making the bodies out of nickel plated steel to using stainl=
ess steel.<br><br>You'll still find the lug vise on our <a href=3D"http=
://www.anvilbikes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/2011-Anvil-Price-list.pdf"=
>2011 price list</a> and still on the <a href=3D"http://www.anvilbikes.com/=
soon.html">front page of our website.</a>=A0 Still made out of stainless st=
eel.=A0 Still with 7 sizes of mandrels (1", 1.125", 1.25" 1.=
330", 1.375", 1.420" and 1.450").=A0 Still $325.=A0 <br=
>
<br>A vise body out of the latest batch taken this morning: <a href=3D"http=
://www.flickr.com/photos/anvilbikes/5588798139/">http://www.flickr.com/phot=
os/anvilbikes/5588798139/</a><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Apr=
3, 2011 at 10:34 PM, jon norstog <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:m=
uttonmaster7@gmail.com">muttonmaster7@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; borde=
r-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">Tempest in a Teap=
ot<br><br>To the list:=A0 I tok a look at Herbie's lug vise. Looks good=
.=A0 I'd buy it if I as doing a lot of lugged frames.=A0 Is it like one=
somebody else did?=A0 Well, is your frame like one someone else did?=A0 Yo=
u know, two triangles, two wheels, a fork?=A0 <br>
<br>In general if you hav thought up something truly novel and unprecedente=
d, you need to patent it.=A0 If you don't patent, it's all on you.<=
br><br>If Herbie is ripping Don off, well let's hear it from Don.=A0 Do=
n?<br>
<br>jn<br><br>"Thursday"<br>e<div><div></div><div class=3D"h5"><b=
r><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 eat 9:07 PM, Arthur Marks =
<span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:arthur.marks@gmail.com" target=3D"_=
blank">arthur.marks@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; borde=
r-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">It sounds good, b=
ut as tactfully as I can say it: =A0I'm not buying it.<br><br>> They=
either fall into the category of "too complicated/doesn't work&qu=
ot;<br>
> Or "aren't being made anymore".<br>
> All of them have their little quirks that ultimately lead to something=
<br>> breaking, getting stuck, having to use a brass hammer to loosen<br=
>> handles, too many parts, etc.<br><br>I took Doug's class a few ye=
ars ago. =A0Since that time, lug vise availability has not changed. =A0Andy=
(Strawberry/LAN71) did updated his with the addition of a heat treated scr=
ew and new lever. =A0He formerly used a hex bolt. =A0Don (Anvil) got rid of=
the flats on his. =A0There were no other lug vises in Doug's shop when=
I took the class that I am aware of or was shown. =A0I find it completely =
excusable and understandable to have preferences, individual quirks and eso=
teric reasonings regarding hand tools. =A0We have different personalities t=
hat enjoy the tactile experience of working with our hands in sometimes ind=
ividual, particular ways. =A0If you intend to introduce a product; however,=
I implore you to do a more thorough job in explaining the merits and diffe=
rences of your offering. =A0Other than a slot pattern change that I <i>coul=
d</i> make a theoretical argument for---but not really a practical one---yo=
ur design looks to be an exact copy. =A0I can see no different "quirks=
" or fewer parts. =A0If it is over-tightened, it will still "get =
stuck". =A0Have you had your sleeves split from use? =A0I can see no r=
eason for that to happen unless a student is haphazardly tightening a vise =
with nothing seated on its mandrel.<br>
<br>Maybe, though, I am going about this all wrong... <br>Perhaps this is w=
hat happens when a web page is reduced to a text line concerning maintenanc=
e. =A0One enterprising young man half a continent away believes a product i=
s no longer available and makes his own to sell. =A0:) =A0 I don't know=
. =A0Where did you get the impression that the Anvil lug vise was no longer=
available??<br>
<font color=3D"#888888">
<br>-Arthur
</font></blockquote></div><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>Cheers!<br>Don =
Ferris<br>Anvil Bikeworks, Inc.<br>Littleton, Colorado<br>Ph: 303.471.7533/=
303.919.9073<br>Fax: 413.556.6825<br><a href=3D"http://www.anvilbikes.com">=
http://www.anvilbikes.com</a><br>t
<br>
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Expanding mandrels are expanding mandrels. there are only a few ways to make
them. more slits...less slits....opposite slits, tighten in the front or
tighten in the back.while some may find it disrespectful or even blatant
theft, others see nothing wrong. a pedal has a platform and spins and if i
make a pedal, it needs to perform those basic functions. a lug vise needs to
expand and hold a lug, so if i make one then it needs to perform that
function at least. it seems that herbie is doing just that, making a basic
inexpensive lug vise. maybe the cylindrical shape is too similar, but to me
this seems the cylindrical shape works just fine in the vise and in some
blocks so why go through the extra machining and costly processes to change
how it is clamped in the vise. I've seen a few lug vises that friends have
made without looking at an Anvil lug vise and they all end up basically
looking and performing the same in the end.
I of course mean absolutely no disrespect to anyone It just seems like
Herbies' heart is in the right place trying to help real newbies and less
well off framebuilders afford useful tools.
expanding mandrels <http://www.mcmaster.com/#expanding-mandrels/=bqemsv>t
>
--
Mike.
Nicola Cycles
200 Grove st.
New Milford CT. 06776
nicolacycles.blogspot.com
NicolaHandmademusic.blogspot.com
heatherandmikesraku.blogspot.com
--001636c5bb45badce104a01d824b
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Expanding mandrels are expanding mandrels. there are only a few ways to mak=
e them. more slits...less slits....opposite slits, tighten in the front or =
tighten in the back.while some may find it disrespectful or even blatant th=
eft, others see nothing wrong. a pedal has a platform and spins and if i ma=
ke a pedal, it needs to perform those basic functions. a lug vise needs to =
expand and hold a lug, so if i make one then it needs to perform that funct=
ion at least. it seems that herbie is doing just that, making a basic inexp=
ensive lug vise. maybe the cylindrical shape is too similar, but to me this=
seems the cylindrical shape works just fine in the vise and in some blocks=
so why go through the extra machining and costly processes to change how i=
t is clamped in the vise. I've seen a few lug vises that friends have m=
ade without looking at an Anvil lug vise and they all end up basically look=
ing and performing the same in the end.<br>
<br>I of course mean absolutely no disrespect to anyone It just seems like =
Herbies' heart is in the right place trying to help real newbies and le=
ss well off framebuilders afford useful tools.<br><br><a href=3D"http://www=
.mcmaster.com/#expanding-mandrels/=3Dbqemsv">expanding mandrels</a> <br>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m=
argin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); paddin=
g-left: 1ex;"><div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>Mike.<br>Ni=
cola Cycles<br>200 Grove st.<br>New Milford CT. 06776<br><a href=3D"http://=
nicolacycles.blogspot.com" target=3D"_blank">nicolacycles.blogspot.com</a><=
br>
<a href=3D"http://NicolaHandmademusic.blogspot.com" target=3D"_blank">Nicol=
aHandmademusic.blogspot.com</a><br><a href=3D"http://heatherandmikesraku.bl=
ogspot.com" target=3D"_blank">heatherandmikesraku.blogspot.com</a><br><br><=
br><br>
<br>
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