Archive-URL: http://search.bikelist.org/getmsg.asp?Filename=classicrendezvous.10907.0159.eml Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 17:52:51 +0100 From: Hilary Stone <hilary.stone(AT)blueyonder.co.uk> Subject: [CR] De Rosa Time line Quite a number of CR members have been aware that I have been working on = a sort of time line for pre-cast lug De Rosas for some time. Many = members have helped by sending pics of their frames and I'd like to take = this opportunity to thank every one who has helped =96 I am especially = grateful to Jack Bissell's 43bikes De Rosa page. What I would stress that what follows is very much work in progress - I = welcome all comments and information that will help to make this a = reliable guide... I have in particular details on very few De Rosa frames from the late = 1970s =96 something I do not understand... Hilary Stone, Bristol, British Isles De Rosa Frames pre-cast lugs A precise and clear time line for pre-1980 De Rosas I think is virtually = impossible =96 De Rosa at this time was quite small and the evidence from = the frames suggests that De Rosa used a number of different lugs and = fork crown that overlapped over quite a number of years. Almost no De = Rosa frames from this time have any frame number. Seatstay Cap Engraving Team frames frequently have no seatstay cap engraving. Seat stay caps = were also not engraved on the earliest De Rosa frames - my best guess is = that the engraving started in the late 60s - 67 or 68. The first version has no heart in the O of De Rosa - my present guess is = that this changed around 1973 to the second version. The second version = has the heart in the O of De Rosa and this continued save for a few = exceptions to the early 1990s. Circa 1976/77 (two frames are known) De Rosa used what appears to be a = solid concave plug with an engraved heart on a few frames. Lugs Team frames frequently have no heart cutouts. There seems to be two = broad common types of pressed lug - ones with a short point and ones = with a long point. On present evidence it looks as the two designs were = in use together for several years probably something like 1972=961974. The = long point definitely started before the short point lugs which seemed = to come into use around 1972. And there are some medium point lugs which = seem to be from the mid 70s... Most frames have heart cutouts in all lugs in the early 70s but there = are a number with short and medium point lugs with only a heart in the = lower head lug or in both head lugs but with no heart cut out in the = seat lug. These seem to date from 1974-6. Cast lugs were introduced around 1979/80 - the cast lug frames are = easily distingushed from the pressed-lug frames by the extension for the = seat bolt. These cast lugs do not feature heart cutouts. Fork Crown Earlier frames seem to use a wide variety of fork crowns - quite a = number around 1972=964 use a Vagner 4-point sloping crown. A 4pt flat = topped cast crown was adopted sometime I think over the period 1973=965. = These normally had a heart engraved in them during the 1970s; team = frames generally were lacking the heart. Fork tangs were plain on the 1960s frames - they gained three round = holes followed later by V shape slots - the later change probably around = 1976. Bottom Bracket Shell A shell with six slots and two hearts =96 one in the down tube tang and = one in the seat tube tang (behind the BB) was standard for quite a long = period. At some point =96 maybe in 1973 a large heart cutout was = introduced on some frames - most had additional heart cutouts in the DT = and ST tangs but some not... Some later 70s frames used BB shells with four slots rather than six. When the the cast lugs were introduced, a new cast BB shell was used = with six relieved areas in the shell. Dropouts Campag short dropouts definitely indicate a frame built 1975 or later = but it seems that De Rosa may have been slower to adopt the Campag short = dropouts than some other framebuilders. Other fittings The earlier chainstay bridges are larger in diameter and with round = flanges formed with the tube. By about 1970 De Rosa used a slightly = smaller diameter round tube with diamond reinforcements. These continued = into the early period of cast lugs. The earliest bottle cage fittings are short studs - these continued into = the 1970s probably until 1973/4. Gear cable guides over the top of the BB shell were standard on De Rosas = from the late 1960s. Brake cable stops/guides (generally three) and DT lever bosses were I = think introduced c1975/6. _______________________________________________ Classicrendezvous mailing list Classicrendezvous(AT)bikelist.org http://www.bikelist.org/mailman/listinfo/classicrendezvous